Looking for Zugbuildungs for Epoch III F17 Germania.
Folks, I am looking for the 1964 train, which I know was hauled by a V200 and had four coaches, any models recommended? Any help would be very much appreciated. Many thanks, David

F117-Germania
Hello david, have a look into Brünings book " Farbphotographien der Deutschen Bundesbahn" vol2 "Diesellokomotiven. I will have a look as well and try to get out something more. Best regards, Wolfgang

Zugbildung F17 Germania
Hello David, I have found something out the cars of F 17 "Germania": -in 1951 the train consisted of two AB4ü cars(blue) and one WR( Group 28) in the following composition AB4ü-WR-AB4ü. The cars might be available by Lilliput or Lima. -Since 1956 the train consisted at least of 3 AB4ümg cars, later 4 and sometimes additionally one one AB4ü(Possibly ,because I only found pictures of the "sister-train Sachsenroß" on same destination) -The train was often hauled by 05 002 - In summer 1958-winter 1958 the train was named FT 17 " Germania" and it consisted of one VT 06 autorail in red livery -Summer 1959 VT 08 Best regards, Wolfgang

Hello Wolfgang, Brilliant background information. Much appreciated. Veile Danke, David

David, Here is information on the Germania from the summer 1962 Kursbuch: Bonn-Hannover daily except Sunday First class only no baggage car dining service (Either a full diner or dining compartment) There was no triebwagen symbol, so presumably it was a locomotive pulled train. Hope this helps, Brian Hilgenberg

Brian, Many thanks for the information. I would have thought the loco would be a V200 or a 01.10? The coaches would be Aum's and the dining car? As you can see still lots to find out. David

Zugbildung F 17 Germania
Hello David, Brian's information ist correct, because at the end of 1950ies, DB decided to perfer locomotive hauled F-trains instead of autorails. At the late 50ies the delivery of V200 and V200.1 diesels was in progress, they replaced the ran out pre war autorails. Additionally it is a matter of fact , that "classic trains" are much more flexible for demands of daily railway traffic( for example "Verstärkungswagen"). And one more VT 08 has had only 2*900 HP Diesels per train as motive power per train. Best regards, Wolfgang

Hello Wolfgang, Thank you. Its strange! I have found plenty of references for these F trains, Gambrinus/Hans Sachs and Dompfeil, but not much on this one? Grusse, David

Zugbildung F 17 Germania
Hello David, these circumstances may be caused by the matter of fact, that F 17 Germania has been a train of periphery . It had not been so much in focus of famous railway photographers like Carl Bellinrodt, who has been more interested in locomotives. In the last years of his life Bellingrodt reduced his activities around Wuppertal. take his wonderful photo of "Sachsenroß", hauled by 05 002 in 1956 and it might by nearly the same composition like F 17 " Germania". Best regards, Wolfgang

F17
Hello David Some short informations about the F17 The train had have only local importance as a connection between Cologne and the Hannover Exhibition. F 17/18 Germania destination: Bonn - Hannover period: 1954 -1969 Renamed 1970 into F 142/143 Germania destination: Hannover - Bonn period: 1970 - summer 1971 in winter 1971 renamed into IC 142/143

Hallo Franz and Wolfgang, Good morning, Very interesting information and most welcome. Many thanks, Grusse, David

F17 Germania
David, Your F 17 Germania train from the middle 60s should have this composition: V200+A4üm-61+WR4üm-64+A4üm-61+A4üm-61. Destination: Hannover - Bonn Destination: Bonn - Hannover the V200 at the other side.

Franz, Marvellous, Looks as though I will have to give the new Hornby/Rivarossi coaches a try or see what Ade coaches are about on Ebay. I will have to keep my 01.10s for the Gambrinus or the Hans Sachs. Many thanks for the illustration. Grusse, David