Hornby's new HO model - Rivarossi Br 58
A Rivarossi Br 58 DB era 3, Out in shops 1st Q. AC version also available. Wonder how it will compare with the very famous Roco Br 58. Looking forward to it. E.Baykal

As seen in Münich: thanks to Ralf Wittkamp

Yes that does look very good. :D

br 58
Now i like the look of this. Will be good if they do it in DRG

Some more pic's on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.de/rivarossi-hr2017-Dampflok-BR-58-1047-DB-Neu-mit-DSS_W0QQitemZ360018802895QQihZ023QQcategoryZ24382QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem David

Thread from a German modeller who has just received one. http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4527&pid=46438&st=0&#entry46438 David

It is certainly an interesting review. I think the price comparison is unfair. A EUR199 with no chip, let alone sound, is not half the price of a EUR400 with sound. A loksound chip is about EUR100, so really to compare the prices, it more like a EUR300 - EUR400 comparison. As to its detail, well as nice as the Brawa class 56 the Brawa Class 57 and 75 (IMHO) are better models, and strangely cheaper than the class 56 as well! From the pictures, personally I don’t think it is as good as the Brawa class 57 (my Brawa bias perhaps?) The Brawa models with Loksound chips all run well out of the box (once you adjust the acceleration and declaration). By the sounds of things the class 58 doesn't run that well. As for pulling power, well the 56 is ok, the 57 is great, and the 75 is outstanding. But no comment on the class 58! I definitely think that the review was written with a Hornby bias. Not that this is a bad thing, but if we are honest, the German railway market is pretty harsh on sub-standard models. Would I buy on the strength of the review, well no, I think I need a bit more information. John

Just as a post script to the review of this model that appeared on MRF. There is now new information about the same loco by the same reviewer which may be of interest to those who read his review. http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4702&pid=47638&st=0&#entry47638

Well, looks like Hornby have produced a nice looking shelf queen. But it would appear that the damage has been done in the german marketplace. It is a shame, but an unfortunate fact of life. John

Well I suppose that goes some way towards explaining the retail price.... I just can't help thinking that you could buy a hell of a lot of QA for another €20 Euros per loco. I expressed reservations about Hornby's marketing strategy when they first acquired Lima/Rivarossi - seems they haven't spent much effort understanding the European HO consumer! - ie maybe we'll pay a little more for a product if it actually works and continues to work!

I suppose no worse than Roco's BBII or BR93, plus several MaTrix monstrosities that continue to be produced or even Brawa's self destructing valve gear? Do you really want me to list all the rubbish from the more 'trusted' manufacturers or should we just quietly forget those? Unfortunately Hornby will always be Hornby in most people's perception of quality, meanwhile my Maunsells remain the best RTR coaches that I have ever seen. In other words, I prefer to decide for myself rather than make assumptions.

Roco, Marklin, Brawa and Fleischman have all produced bad locomotives, but to many people, these are classed as one offs. If Hornby had a track record of successful locomotives to their credit, then people would look at this as a one off. Unfortunately (to the best of my knowledge) this really was their first attempt. I don’t have the loco, but for me the biggest turn off was the fact that I had to fit the chip myself to it. Maybe my expectations are different to others, but as a minimum, I expect a locomotive to come with a pre installed chip. Given that Flieschmann remains something of an unknown quantity at the moment, this failure by Hornby is rather disappointing. They may still have the opportunity to recover and become a serious play in the RTR Market. I truly hope that they do. So that there are more than the main 5 (Piko, Bachman, MaTrix, Brawa and RoFleish). John

I have no issue if statements made on this forum are true however I do take issue with the assumptions of those who either read only opinions of others or in the case above comments which are fundamentally untrue. Yet again on forums that have a high foreign content there is a 'jump on the bandwagon' hysteria on the subject of Hornby, especially from those people* who neither buy Hornby and have any intention of buying Hornby. If opinions need to expressed which are not based on first hand knowledge, why not make them on Mr. Woods' favoured forum? *but, by golly, they like expressing their opinion.

I for one judge Hornby by the same criteria that I judge every other manufacturer - I've always had the policy of buying the best available model ..... also I use this and other fora to guide my purchase decisions, so whereas fundmantally I agree that postings should not be made that are potentially damaging or defammatory to the reputation of a manufacturer I do not agree that opinions expressed are valueless unless they'e based on first-hand knowledge, or even assuming that the opposite necessarily has any greater value - I owned 28 Hornby locomotives at one time, but I don't believe it has any relevance or adds any authority to my assessment of a Hornby loco - I sold the lot over 30 years ago, and I would quite concede that my previous experience with Hornby is probably not relevant to what they produce today - either in OO or HO. Anyone having gone through a job interview recently should be familiar with "past performance and behaviours are one of the most reliable indicators of future performance".. to be honest I think in the model railway community many people are willing to have an open mind about the past reputation of manufacturers, if they can see efforts to improve - In the 80ies I bought NO Lima because in my opinion it was poor quality, but I started buying their product in the 90ies when they introduced flywheels , cardan drives, working pans, etc and started to compete with products that were the right quality. I had an open mind about the Hornby 58, but now I won't consider purchasing one until an improved version becomes available, itf it ever does. From that aspect I welcome opinion from this or any other forum, and if people either felt restricted from expressing opinions, or were prevented from doing so, I believe it would be a loss to the forum.