DCC Question

DCC Question
Hello Everyone, I just bought two Minitrix engines, one is a BR 18 , the other is an E75. The BR18 has a NEM picture on the outside of the box but no paperwork inside. My layout is Analog. Is it ok to run this type of engine on my layout without damaging the engine? The guy that I bought these from knows nothing about DCC. Thank you, PIerre By the way, has anyone bought any of the new Arnold stuff? How are they? :?

I would assume that the Minitrix locos are not fitted with DCC decoders. Even if they were, I have never heard of any damage to a DCC fitted loco by running it on an analog layout. In our MR club, several members bring DCC fitted locos which run on our analog layouts.

I have analogue and DCC. Most of the DCC locos appear to run okay on analogue (as at Alan's club), however the blurb suggests they are designed to do so. One or two just don't move at all, presumably because the chips don't support analogue mode. I haven't had any damaged though.

DCC Question
Gentlemen, Thank you so much for your replies. I can run them in peace now. Have either of you purchased the new Arnold stuff? Pierre

One or two just don't move at all, presumably because the chips don't support analogue mode. I haven't had any damaged though. All the DCC decoders I have come across support DC operation. If they don't work it is because CV29 has been altered to DCC only. You shouldn't operate DCC decoders on DC if you have a "Relco" or other hi-frequency device on the layout, this can damage them. Feedback controllers are not good for them also.

Peter, I will check that - it would be great if all of my locos were dual capable. However I am pretty sure from the Anweisungen and from testing that a couple of chips are purely DCC. As far as I can tell the offenders are: Fleischmann Twin Decoders and a Zimo MX 62N.

Paul, I don't know about the Fleischmann decoder, but I thought all Zimo decoders were factory set to DCC-only operation? I'm afraid it's time to break out the manual and have a play with CV29... Just be aware that the running of DCC decoders is best when running on DCC with CV29 set for the locos to run only on DCC. Allowing them to run on analogue as well is certainly useful, but can result in somewhat less fluid running when on DCC. The source of the 'pristine track' myth that goes with DCC... Steph

A myth which is repeated often enough, becomes a fact. :wink:

The source of the 'pristine track' myth that goes with DCC... Steph, do you mean that if DC is disabled (i.e. a decoder is set to DCC only), the locomotive will not only run more smoothly but will also be more tolerant of dirt on the tracks, like DC? Richard.

Richard, Exactly so! These are a quick copy of one entry on my website. It helps explain why setting to run DCC-only is a good idea: " Analogue control The other function I feel I should draw your attention to. If you’re operating on DCC layouts it’s well worth setting the value required to restrict the loco to digital operation. This does a number of things, firstly; it allows the use of some of the higher functionality in the decoder, which may be disabled by having the decoder capable of driving on analogue. The effects of this may not be subtle and also may not be fully detailed in your decoder manual. A classic example is with the fitting of ‘Power 1’ modules to ‘Gold’ decoders; unless set to digital only, the Power 1 will have no effect on the running at all. And the same is true of fitting the on-board power system to Zimo decoders; it’ll only work if CV29 is set to digital only operation. Another, surprising, advantage of digital only operation is to do with tolerance of dirt on the track. If the decoder is set to operate on both DCC and analogue it will wait to operate until it has detected whether it’s under DCC or analogue command. So imagine the scenario with the loco bowling along when it hits some dirt. The decoder temporarily ‘glitches’ and the momentum of the loco (especially if it’s got a flywheel) carries it over the dirt. The decoder will then hold off until it’s detected it’s on DCC (or analogue) control and then move off; the result will be something of a lurch as the decoder pauses for a few milliseconds. If the decoder has been programmed for DCC only then the decoder will resume drive as soon as power is returned – frequently with no obvious indication of it ever having stopped. " There's more on the website (full URL in my signature) the DCC pages start at http://www.euram-online.co.uk/dcc/dcc.htm Hope some of it is useful. But; please remember that it's only the opinion of two people... Steph

The source of the 'pristine track' myth that goes with DCC... Steph, I'm afraid that it is not a myth. You do lose DCC control if your track is not very clean. This may not seem apparent if the loco continues to travel at the same speed thanks to some power stored in a condenser. However if you try to change the speed or stop the train, there is often a very delayed reaction to the command if the signal codes are interrupted by even a thin film of dust or rust. All my friends who run DCC have experienced this problem.

Alan, You do lose DCC control if your track is not very clean. This may not seem apparent if the loco continues to travel at the same speed... Excuse me taking your comments slightly out of context, but as I've transcribed it is correct. The on-board power (if fitted) does (of course) have a positive effect. But setting CV29 to 'digital only operation' will help the running by reducing the dwell time if the decoder-fitted loco hits dirt. I take your point about your freinds who run DCC, but I wonder how many of them adjust CV29 from it's default setting? I've never taken any particular regard to worrying about track cleanliness with DCC and find the running is still better than it is with analogue - certainly a lot fewer stalling-type problems. Physics will always win in the end! My concern is always the need to use fingers to push or otherwise correct operation of a loco, with DCC I have much less of a need to apply those types of obvious correction. Very useful in an exhibition environment! Steph

Steph, I was very impressed by the smooth operation of the Schwarzwald Modellbahn, as I mentioned here... http://germanrail.8.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=5172#5172 As an alternative to fanatical track cleaning they have developed a coupling system which connects an electric circuit through all the vehicles in a train so that all the wheels are able to pick up current and DCC signals. In spite of this extra feature, coupling and uncoupling looks to be as simple as using any other couplers. You can see this demonstrated during the video shown on BahnTV.

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