Colonialwarenwagen
The attractive Trix/Märklin Colonialwarenwagen with a covered centre section and open wagon ends are well known. But did they really exist? And are there any Epoch II versions?

Hi Paul, Marklin made a ste that had one hese, a Bavarian OOt and rwo 2 axel flat wagons with DRG markings about5 (?) years ago. Cheers John

John, Could it have been this one which was part of a MOW set? 47893d (1998) KKK, DRG red-brown, equipment wagon Other Märklin variants appear to be: 46074 (2002) KKK, DRG ivory, "Dallmayr Kaffee", Insider wagon 2002 48403 (2003) KKK, blue, snow-covered, "Christmas wagon 2003" 46078 (2005) KKK, no. 602104 K.Bay.Sts.B. green, "Persil" And known Trix models are: 23571/33571 (1993) no. 86561 K.Bay.Sts.B, green 23572/33572 (1993) no. 6547 K.Bay.Sts.B, green, "Persil" 23827 (1997) no. 86 561 K.Bay.Sts.B, white, "Franz Kathreiners Nachfolger GmbH" The 33... series are the old Trix Express versions.

Hi Paul, Thats the one. If the wagon is true, then potentially the MOW is ok. The Dallmayr Kaffee is probably questionable. I think I read somewhere that the Persil one is accurrate. Cheers John

The Colonialwarenwagen has been somewhat of an 'unknown' for some time. Despite an extensive search of the Deutsche Museum Archive, a plan or works diagram has not emerged therefore only speculation rather than hard fact is a feature of this wagon. All this did not stop Trix producing their version in the 80's however as many of Trix's early products are more fiction than fact*, the jury is out on this one. Tim *A good examples are their three axle coaches. The DRG Pw would have lost its gangway by the late 1920's and the third is total fiction being based on a vehicle which was not of the KBayStsB.

There is no mention of them in Güterwagen-Archiv I either, although that is far from comprehensive. According to Johannes Wittmann there was one original: a private wagon owned by "Franz Kathreiners" Nachfolger Company. However the Bavarian numbering system sets aside 5 numbers for such wagons. Johannes reports that the models generally look like the prototype, but many details are apparently wrong. The original Kolonialwarenwagen was based on the underframe of the long Bavarian Gp (later Gl) goods van with a 5.5m wheelbase, whereas the model is based on the underframe of the normal goods wagon Glm (later Gm) with a 4.5m wheelbase. Unsurprisingly the length over buffers is therefore wrong as are the axleguards which were of an older pattern than on the model. He says that from the sketch in the 1897 Bavarian wagon book it looks like the open sections were used for storing tanks (palm oil or coconut fat etc), and the covered section used for non-water resistant products like cocoa, coffee, tea, etc (The term Kolonialwaren (the K spelling is more common it seems) meant overseas produce and raw materials, especially sugar, coffee, tobacco, rice, cocoa, spices and tea i.e. produce from the overseas colonies). The wagon had no ice bunkers. On the model front there is also a metal kit produced in cooperation with the Länderbahn forum. The website here shows their idea of how such a wagon, if it existed, might have been used. Any further information would be gratefully received!

So, this is a strange discussion. If the information from Herr Wittmann was available at the start of this thread why bother to ask if they existed, surely the answer was already known? It centres on wagon of a prototype for which no diagram, photo or plan exists. And yet a claim has already been made that 'I think I read somewhere that the Persil one is accurate.' Unfortunately John's comment stems from the type of dis-information which is published (in good faith) but totally wrong but accepted as truth and then perpetuated as gospel. Where is the discussion heading?

Hi Tim, It was years ago that I read it, where, when is unfortunately lost in the annals of time. It would appear though based on the data now available that the Trix wagon is a flight of fancy, at least in terms of its length. If there was only one built by the Bavarians, I would doubt that it made it to the DRG. Now it is likely that someone is going to find a photo of it! John

Hello, in the new items report 2006 http://www.lbforum.com/messe_2006.htm , see manufacturer 'Wolfgang Uhl', you can find two pictures of the H0 brass-prototypes of the Kolonialwarenwagen. The main difference at first view, like above mentioned, is that is longer than the Trix model. The brass model was never delivered, because, when all was prepared for the final production, something went wrong with a partner in the production, and Wolfgang Uhl give up this project. He also put an end to his small manufacturer activities in total, after that very bad experience for him. But you can still reach him http://www.eisenbahnmodelle.net/ and ask him about the prototype and where he found the prototype-drawing of the Kolonialwarenwagen. Dirk

Tremendous stuff! Given that the main body resembles the standard Trix van, could a cut n'shut be achieved using the ends of the colonial wagon plus a standard van body on the later LWB chassis offered by Matrix for both their van and livestock wagon? Should cost about £50 if you can source the items from the swapmeet world but this should be no deterrent. Whether this is really good value for money for a solitary wagon that may/may not have existed is debatable but at least no-one will tell you that it is incorrect. I look forward to seeing the completed model. Tim

Tim, The Wittmann information was discovered after the thread was started, following earlier unsuccessful searches. As often happens, the discussion had unearthed buried memories and triggered further research, the fruits of which are hopefully of interest to others on the forum. It appears, according to Johannes (see above), that there is a sketch of this wagon in the 1897 Bavarian Wagon Book (whatever that is!). Nevertheless it remains a pretty elusive beast. Were there others numbered as per the numbering scheme? How long did it/they survive? Were they used by the DRG? I think we should be told! Dirk, Thank you for the link to Wolfgang Uhl. I have sent him and email and will report back to the forum.

Okay here's the translated response from Wolfgang Uhl: The Kolonialwaren wagon was a one-off belonging to the K. Bay. Sts. B. In the (March) 1897 K. Bay. Sts. B. Fleet Register it may be found under diagram number 269. There is also a diagram with the main dimensions. The running number of the unbraked wagon was 86561. It was the property of the state railway and was developed for tariff reasons (?). However there was no real use for such a wagon, so that it remained the sole example. The wagon appears to have been taken out of service by 1917 (but this information is not 100% certain). It was used on branch lines with light goods traffic. Wolfgang doesn't have a photo, but offered to scan the diagram and the excerpt from the Register. The Trix/Märklin wagons with advertising are not prototypical as the state-owned wagons were plain. However at least the green 86561 version is an attempt to model the original albeit apparently on the wrong chassis! The fact that the Franz Kathreiner model has the same running number and that Johannes believed it was owned by that firm suggests the K.Bay.Sts.B. may have sold it to Franz Kathreiner by 1917. I have asked Wolfgang whether that might be the case.

Paul, I'm sorry, but I have to contradict Wolfgang Uhl. The Kolonialwarenwagen (or Colonialwaarenwagen in old German orthography before the reform of 1901) was never property of the Bavarian State Railways. It was a private owned vehicle, which can easily be seen from the wagon number. Wagons with numbers between 85001 and 90000 were private goods wagons for special purposes in the middle Bavarian numbering scheme (there are also an older and a newer scheme). The private ownership can also be verified from a roster dating back to 1894. As far as I remember at the moment, the wagon disappeared somewhen around 1910, but I have to look for this at home this evening. As already pointed out several times before, the MäTrix attitude in releasing this item again and again in various liveries is a good example for their lax approach to prototypical models. I suppose they released this model once due to its quite unusual old-fashioned appearance - in fact it is the only wagon of such style I know, and the only evidence for it are the table and the sketch in the Bavarian wagon roster books. In order to save costs, they used the underframe of the normal 15-ton Bavarian G-wagon, which is too short. In order to sell it several times, they changed the livery from time to time, and sold it in limited editions. By the way, the 15-ton G-wagon on the other hand was a very good chosen prototype, cause it was the Bavarian goods wagon second in number. MäTrix would have done a better job, if they would have added more of the other standard Bavarian goods wagons to this model.

Johannes, Aha! So the Germans had a previous spelling reform! Perhaps they do this every 100 years to prevent completely random spelling (and pronunciation) as in English, viz: bough, cough, rough, though, through, thorough, thought which under a spelling review would look something like: bow, coff, ruff, tho, throo, thurrer, thort... no, it'll never catch on! Back OT... are you referring to the Trix Gm wagon issued under various numbers e.g. 23602 (wagon nr 41518, no brakeman's cab) and 23562 (wagon nr 41054, with brakeman's cab) and with variants purporting to be owned by MAN and Bing? WRT the goods wagon fleet, my notes show that ~5500 Omq were built and 5098 Omk. So which was the most common Bavarian goods wagon then?