Build Quality and Brands
I know this could be a very divisive question but, as someone fairly new to German model railroad brands, I would like some honest opinions on various manufacturers of locomotives and their quality. My local dealer is a very large Marklin dealer. He holds Marklin as the best made in the world for the following two reasons, the historic robustness of their motors and the all (mostly) metal bodies (durability.) He contends you can take any Marklin lok from the past 50 years and easily repair/restore it and return it to working order in short time. That makes good sense to me as the metal bodies would have withstood time better than plastic or other materials and you could easily strip and repaint a metal body. I'll have to take his word the motors are easily repaired or replaced and are of good quality. Clearly he has a strong bias (biased toward what his store is filled with.) Are there other brands you have had experience with that have historically been robust, well manufactured, models? Have other manufactures used metal for their bodies in the past? Most of what I see today is plastic. I understand the pros/cons of 2 rail vs 3 rail track, DCC vs Marklin system, AC vs DC, etc. so let's leave that out of the equation for now. I'd just like your opinions on the quality of the product and, as I'm looking over the used market and sources like eBay, other brands worth considering. I also know detailing is an important and essential part of the brand equation and in general, metal bodied loks are not as well detailed as plastic (although that gap is closing.) again, lets not get too hung up in that debate as well. Thanks for all your advice in advance and helping a newbie with some direction.

Build Quality and Brands
Welcome Christopher! As far as n scale goes, the old Arnold was very similar with the motors and durability, although a bit loud. Their bodies were also made of metal. The new Arnold I am very pleased with as well. I do not think they make any in metal, AFAIK. I am also a big fan of Fleischmann because of a long history and excellent quality, I think they make metal bodies too-and in HO scale, like Marklin. Trix is also a very good company and they do make some metal bodies. Kato/Hobbytrain-I do not like. They make metal bodies too but lack in a couple of areas. See my posting about it in this forum-Kato/Hobbytrain. I am also a fan of Roco but I do not know of any metal bodies in either scale. I also do repairs and detailing for a local hobby shop and I have done only one repair and that was for an axle replacement of an ICE (Minitrix)car with brass gears, as the plastic ones split after only a few hrs of running. These are my experiences and they are also my humble and honest opinions! :D

Christopher hi, I prefer metal models too. But on the other hand the price gap between all-metal (i.e. Lemaco, Fulgurex, etc.) vs. metal+plastic is so huge that we all have to accept plastic, or metal+plastic combinations. Fleischmann used to make metal models in 70's or earlier. Roco produces all-metal models from time to time (many before 80's). If you are into era III upwards, then there is Hag - considered one of the best by many. Today many producers like Rivarossi have boiler&chasis-metal models. Based on your era and location preferences you might not find the model with your choice of material. I have a number of plastic body machines from Marklin, Roco, and Rivarossi (Rivarossi Pt 3/6 being my favorite). I have to say that I value all my models no matter what material used, but as per my experience with them, what your dealer told you about Marklin is true - one can make it work regardless of age, they are extremely robust. Unfortunately I do not have the same long history with other makes except fixing few older Liliput models for a friend which I have to confess were terrible - but this may be limited to those models, I cannot be sure. At the moment I have one 70's Fleischmann (2 rail) just in from eBay. If you wish I can share my thoughts about it here with you. Regards, Cem.

Hi Christopher, Cem raises for me the most important point, that being whether you are going to model a specific era/location. However in relation to your question about quality and longevity, then this is harder to define. Most top of the line models now days use a combination of materials. It is difficult to say whether they will survive the test of time. It should be noted that even some Marklin models have not stood up well in this regard as there is the infamous Zinc pest issue from the 50's to consider. If you buyt what you like then you will be happy with it. However all manufactures have in the past made some dodgy models (Marklin’s Herschel Wegmann train, Rivarossi class 58 etc) so even buying something brand new is no safe guard. In terms of scale fidelity I would say that Brawa is first and depending on the model Roco, Fleischmann and MaTrix are all about the same. Trix remains an unknown at the moment as we await with interest their new scale line. Hopefully it will be as good as Roco’s old platinum line. I have Marklin and Brawa locomotives and Marklin, Brawa, Trix, Roco and Fleischmann rolling stock. Cheers John

Putting aside the detail & accuracy for a moment, in terms of robustness you cannot really beat early Marklin & Fleischmann. Provided the models are complete they can be rebuilt/repaired to run as good or even better than new. Most spare parts are still available & this is something Fleischmann in particular have always excelled in. Later models of all manufactures cannot be as robust due to their increased detail & accuracy, but with care & respect (subject to the odd "lemon") there is no reason why they should not last many, many years & outlast most of us.

I think there's a certain mythos around metal, that somehow metal implies quality, that you have something substantial in your hands just because it's made of metal. I think it's an illusion, but a powerful one. For myself, I want models which are to scale, accurate and run smoothly and quietly. Metal does not guarantee any of these things. Märklin has compromised scale fidelity many times in the past and continues to do so. They have the deepest flanges of any manufacturer, they mount their buffers too high, and their UIC coaches remain shorter than scale length. You could make them out of gold and they still wouldn't be accurate models. I don't debate that old Märklin or Fleischmann models are easier to keep running. They were relatively simple machines, made out of basic materials. It's easier to work on an automobile that was made in 1970 than it is a new one, too. I sometimes think about buying a Märklin-designed Trix model now and then. I will only consider it if it doesn't look metal--it has to look as good as a plastic loco I can buy from someone else. The trouble is that usually I can get something that runs just as well, if not better and is closer to scale and less expensive from somewhere else. Metal may be more robust, but that only matters if you intend to drop your models on the floor. I personally don't like to handle my models much, because of wear on the paint and fingerprints, so the strength of the model doesn't matter as much to me as it may to others. As long as it performs the way I want and looks relatively accurate to me, a plastic model is fine by me. Jurgen

The messages above pretty much summarize the debate I'm having with myself and why I posted this question in the first place. There is a mythos around metal that is hard to escape (for some of us.) On the other hand, I'm a very scale and detail oriented person and all the criticisms Jurgen points out about Marklin are an issue with me. The products from HAG and Micro-Metakit look amazing but are often out of my price range. Then again, you can always mix better detailed/more accurate stock with Marklin. Why mix better scale stock with a more course locomotive when you could just buy a more detailed plastic model. The debate rages.

Hi Cem, That is a pretty broad statement that is based more on perception than fact. If we look at the price of models the main driver is not its construction material but its availability. Micro Metakit locomotives sell for higher amounts because they are made in such small numbers. Historic locomotives sell for higher prices because of their condition and their availability. A locomotive that is play worn will sell for less than the "mint in box" version. Micro Metakit and Marklin are in different leagues when it comes to using metal. Marklin cast the boiler/cab region in one piece, but Micro Metakit build it out of metal parts. Hi Christopher, mixing stock is becoming more and more common. Its about what stock you are mixing together. As a generalisation it you had a 5 wagon train that had a wagon made by a single manufacturer from each decade (1950's, 60's, 70' etc) IMHO it would look very strange as the level of detail has changed significantly. My D Zug has the following coaches Marklin Post 4 Wu Roco Pw 29 Roco C4ü Wü 11 Brawa C4ü Pr 21 Fleischmann AB6ü Pr 06 Roco C4ü 28 Admittedly they have all been manufactured in the last 5 years, but they run well together and look like a real train. Ultimately the value of an item will reflect simply what someone wants to pay for it. Model Trains are like cars. Some appreciate, most don’t. John

I wouldn't agree that plastic is more detailed than metal. My Brawa locos are better than most plastic ones for detail. Some plastic locos actually use metal parts for detailing as I unfortunately found out when cleaning one of my Roco ones.

I don't care whether locomotives, or any other rolling stock for that matter, are made out of metal, plastic, wood, or pretty much anything else - I expect them to be as accurate as possible, durable enough for me to handle without them falling apart, and I expect them to run well. I guess that I agree with Jurgen! I'm a newbie to model railways but I do not like Märklin - from the perspective of accuracy, their locomotives have wheel flanges that are as big or bigger than any other manufacturer's I have seen - this is a particular 'pain point' for me personally. Their locomotives are expensive, and often lack detail when compared with similarly priced models from other manufacturers. They cannot even make scale coaches! I don't like their marketting philosophy - their most interesting products are often only available to people who have been 'membersof the club' since the dawn of time; they push their dealers to sell only Märklin; look at their Starter Sets and compare them with those made by Roco: Roco offers their standard (i.e. fully detailed) locomotives at a 'knock down' price, together with a Controller (Multimaus) that serves the majority of needs - e.g. point switching as well as loco control. Märklin on the other hand offers less detailed locomotives than found in their standard range, together with a Controller that cannot handle things like points - you need a Central station (very nice, but >500.00 Euros) for that! I made the mistake of buying a Märklin Starter Set for my son's Christmas box, but we have switched to DCC and never looked back. Regards. Neil

Hi Neil, If you elect to use Marklin 3 rail as your base system, then you are going to have over scale flanges. If there is a Marklin Locomotive you like but you use two rail buy the Trix version. Same locomotive different flange depth, still overscale, but not as badly as the Marklin ones. Same with the rolling stock, except that any Marklin product made in the last five years, also has DC wheels available. Pretty simple thing to swap the wheels on wagons. Marklin is not alone in not producing 1:87 length coaches, Flieschmann, Trix and Roco produce them as well. When it comes to DCC equipment, where there is the 2 vs 3 rail debate, the debate on DCC is generally along similar “my system is better than any one elses” lines. Yes Marklins central station is expensive, but so is the ESU ECOS, but both are cheap compared to the Zimo gear. You pay your money and either start at the top or move up there. As for Roco, well their fully detailed locomotives, that were on a par with Brawa in terms of detailing and price, were their platinum line and unfortunately they no longer make them. John